Don: The description of Jesus as being The Way is not just about Jesus but about his methods, teaching, humility, love, sacrifice, etc., and is more descriptive than prescriptive. The Way (the door to the Kingdom) is through the message and the medium of Jesus, but if you don’t know that, it does not deprive you of benefiting from or from using the Door.
In the parable, we have so many elements: a fold; an inside and an outside to the fold; sheep inside the fold; sheep outside; sheep that are lost; a shepherd; thieves and robbers (religious leaders); a gate/ door (Jesus himself); a doorkeeper, not defined but different from the door; strangers; hirelings; wolves; the voice of the shepherd; the names the shepherd knows us by; and the ability of the sheep to hear the shepherd’s voice.
We’ve discussed most of these. But of particular interest is: Who are the three kinds of sheep – Inside, Outside (Others), and Lost? It’s important because the Lost and the Others seem to be the object of deliberate intentional activity by the shepherd. Jesus says he MUST go get them and bring them into the fold.
Romans 9 is about the Israelite/Gentile relationship, and about God’s election of a “chosen people.” Does it shed any light on this question of who are insider sheep? It seems to say that the people who are “predestined” to be God’s chosen people on the basis of following the religious law ended up failing to become God’s people, and that the Gentiles became God’s people, on the basis of their faith.
Jazlin: Jesus commissioned his disciples – the inner circle — to go gather the outsiders.
Harry: The identity of Israel has always been tied to being the chosen people. But there were many generations of people before there were ever Jews. Paul is saying nicely to the Jews that the declaration of being God’s sole representatives was their declaration, not God’s. It seems that Paul himself doesn’t fully understand this issue, and he is just awakening to it in this passage in Romans.
Eb: If you have the qualities of the spirit—love, compassion, charity, etc.—you are in the fold, whether you are a Buddhist or whatever, and you fulfill God’s wishes and work.
Harry: Agrees with Eb. These qualities are common to all humankind. It is at least arrogant to say that one is chosen by God. The historical and archaeological record shows that the Jewish state was never a great one in terms of great civilizations of the Earth. Jesus fought against this arrogance, but it’s not unique to Jews. Most religions and sects share this arrogance.
Don: Agrees that it’s not unique to Jews. But back to the parable: Reading in front of the lines, so to speak, does the story really start with an empty sheep pen, which the shepherd then goes out and starts bringing in sheep to fill? Or are there some everlasting inner sheep already in it? Is there something permanent about the inner nature of the insider sheep?
Eb: Churches are agonizing over the ordination of women, spending vast sums on international conferences on this and other issues. Is that the kind of thing they should be doing? What would Jesus think? We are too concerned about church organization and bureaucracy; we forget the MISSION of the church.
Jay: Jesus’s audience comprised Jews. He was telling them that some of them are insiders but there are also some who could not get through the door. But he told them there were non-Jews outside who could and would get in – that there were elements common to all humans. He was saying that Jewishness is not the common characteristic that brings people to God. So we have to read the parable in light of who the audience was. Jesus would be saying exactly the same thing to the SDA if he were preaching here today.
We focus on the sheep – on how to be an insider. Instead, we should be focusing on people who are not insider sheep. We should assume that we are one of them. The door and the doorkeeper seem to determine who gets in or out. Luke 13:22 … shows that outsiders think they are already in, but God says Hey, you’re wrong. He is talking about us!
Harry: The Jews created a process, ceremonies, thinking that made them holy, that it put them on the inside with God.
Don: To what extent is it the will and the ability of the sheep to get into the fold that makes it happen? How much is their responsibility? There’s a strong implication in the parable that the shepherd does all the work, that there’s no volition on the part of the sheep.
Harry: We should avoid putting ourselves forward as insider sheep. Being a good person is not dependent on following the rules of a religion or on showing oneself to be holy, but on behaviour, on unobtrusively helping our fellow man. Those who think they will be first, because they follow the rules, will be last. And vice versa.
Videssa (sp?) It’s about our motivation. When the shepherd’s around, the sheep have to do what they are told. So we are motivated through the holy spirit. All we have to do is be there, in his presence, and he will take care of the rest.
Jay: Our responsibility is to know the shepherd’s voice – to know goodness, compassion, grace.
Don: There is quite a contrast between Luke 13 and John 10. In the latter, it’s easy to get into the fold; in the former, it’s difficult.
Jay: People, including wolves and robbers, really think they are sheep.
Don: They are in sheep’s clothing.
Eb: Luke 13:29. People are coming from everywhere. But 30: The first will be last… etc.
Alice: is it just a matter of order? Of being first in line?
Jaz: Bible is clear that the prophets were sure they were going to Heaven.
Don: In the Judgment scene, we see sheep and we see goats. Who are the goats? We’ll work on that next week.
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