Jay: We’ve been exploring the concepts of grace and judgment. We’re trying to understand if there’s an intersection between these two, as was suggested at our last meeting. One idea proposed was that grace might follow judgment. This leads us to consider their relationship in terms of timing and sequence.
Additionally, we’ve discussed the idea of connectedness in terms of self-discernment and divine discernment, or self-evaluation and God’s evaluation. We’re pondering whether grace plays a role in divine evaluation, and if judgment relates more to self-evaluation.
This week, I’ve been looking at what others have said about this topic. I started with Paul, a key biblical reference. One verse that stood out to me is in First Corinthians 4:1-5. Paul discusses the relationship and timing of judgment. He says, “This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time, each will receive their praise from God.”
Reflecting on this, I looked for additional references and found an article online that focuses on the biblical dichotomy of judgment, exploring the call to judge and the admonition against it. The author identifies two types of judgment: righteous judgment and hypocritical judgment. As we think about our previous discussions, even though the word ‘grace’ isn’t in the excerpt I’m about to share, consider if there’s an element of grace or any impression of grace in it. The article begins by introducing this dichotomy and cognitive dissonance around judgment, then delves into a section called ‘righteous judgment’.
The article starts with the idea that scripture is used to interpret scripture. While Jesus advises not to judge in Matthew 7, he suggests we should judge in Luke 12. Since Jesus doesn’t contradict himself, as stated in Matthew 18:16, it’s up to us to discern what he truly means. The author believes Jesus does want us to judge. In Matthew 7, where Jesus says “judge not,” he also says, “do not give what is holy to the dogs nor cast your pearls before swine” (Matthew 7:6). Identifying ‘dogs’ and ‘swine’ inherently involves judgment.
Moreover, in Matthew 7:15-16, Jesus warns of false prophets, stating, “You will know them by their fruits.” This implies judging them based on their actions.
Jesus clarifies in John 7:24, “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” This suggests that Jesus encourages judgment, but it must be righteous. The Law of Moses in Leviticus 19:16 says, “In righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.” Righteous judgment involves judging not by flesh but by spirit (John 8:15), focusing on actions rather than motives, as we can’t discern others’ hearts or intentions – only God can.
The article then addresses hypocritical judgment. In Matthew 7, Jesus condemns judging others for faults we ourselves possess. Every time we hypocritically criticize someone, we condemn ourselves. This is exemplified in the story of the woman caught in adultery (John 8:7), where Jesus challenges those without sin to cast the first stone. Hypocritical judges often use their criticism to hide their own faults, thinking their own wrongdoings will go unnoticed. However, God sees through this facade, as highlighted in Romans 2:1-3.
The author concludes by contrasting righteous judgment with hypocritical judgment. He invites us to consider how these concepts relate to our ongoing discussions about grace and judgment. Specifically, he prompts us to think about how these ideas of judgment tie in with the sequencing of grace and judgment as discussed in First Corinthians 4.
The question posed is whether the concepts of righteous and hypocritical judgment offer any insights into how grace and judgment are interrelated, and whether they help in understanding the sequence between the two. We’re encouraged to reflect on these thoughts.
C-J: When God confronted Adam and Eve after their disobedience, He asked, “What have you done?” He approached them; they didn’t approach Him, even though they realized their nakedness and vulnerability, indicating a break in their fellowship with God. Following this, we see the judgment of Cain after he killed Abel. His parents must have wondered how he could commit such an act, considering they were in a place where they lacked nothing. This story reflects that human nature hasn’t really changed much.
When we judge through the discernment of the Holy Spirit, grace accompanies our judgment. When we judge based on our own righteousness, we often err. We’re reminded of the saying, “But for the grace of God, there go I.” We must acknowledge that not everyone has had the same opportunities in life. While the Bible commands “Thou shalt not kill,” it also contains narratives of God commanding to kill. This contrast suggests that with God, there’s a direct line to grace. We shouldn’t be overly concerned with the magnitude of our sins or our social status because grace is a straight line when we humbly seek a relationship with God.
Don: I believe the story of the woman caught in adultery teaches us that hypocritical judgment is a part of all of us. We all fall into the category of being hypocritical. I’m skeptical about the possibility of being non-hypocritical. Jesus’ question, “Whoever is without sin, let him cast the first stone,” implies that we are all incapable of non-hypocritical judgment.
Therefore, I question the author’s distinction between hypocritical and righteous judgment. While we may strive for righteousness in our judgments and even believe ourselves capable of it, I doubt that this aligns with Jesus’ teachings. The concept of being able to judge righteously without hypocrisy doesn’t seem plausible to me.
Reinhard: To me, righteous judgment in our life, whether in the community or church, is akin to reprimand or correction. Those in authority, like church members or leaders, usually have a righteous motive. They aim to correct someone’s behavior, not to demean or worsen their position. In Jesus’ time, the Pharisees or scribes imposed burdens on others while failing to practice what they preached. This is an example of hypocritical judgment.
In contrast, righteous judgment involves understanding God’s will and using it to correct others compassionately. This is where grace comes into play. The intention behind righteous judgment, aided by God, allows us to forgive and correct others. Similarly, when we repent and turn back to God, He accepts us, embodying the essence of grace. That’s how I see judgment, whether it’s our own or towards others.
Donald: Judgment can be seen from various perspectives: personal judgment and judging others. When judging others, we can only see their outward appearance and actions, not their hearts—only God can do that. It raises the question: can I judge myself accurately? Do I truly understand my own heart, or am I deceiving myself?
So, there are two aspects to consider. When it comes to judging others, which we often do, the question is, what standard do we use? Is it a biblical commandment, like Micah 6:8, or something else? As a Seventh Day Adventist, do my beliefs influence how I judge others? Judging others and even ourselves is complex. It’s challenging to be objective and not mislead ourselves into thinking what is right or wrong.
Sharon: I heard of a church in Africa where students of a university affiliated with that church danced at a welcome party, and video of the event was posted online. A pastor of the same church in the US who saw the video objected that the students were not upholding the church’s values.
It seems he saw his own actions as righteous judgment, a call for the church to maintain moral standards. This raises the question: Is there such a thing as righteous judgment on a corporate level?
Michael: I don’t think so. One might label it as hypocritical. This highlights the problem with judgment: it’s often based on a purely moral perspective without any acknowledgment of motives or context. But to judge the pastor’s judgment is to fall into the same trap of unfairness, and illustrates the complex nature of judgment and the challenges in determining what’s truly ‘righteous’.
C-J: The pastor could have approached the situation more graciously, asking for context or understanding the cultural differences. Were the children not simply enjoying themselves within their culture? Doing so doesn’t necessarily reflect on their spiritual life. I agree that God meets us where we are and that we should celebrate life and special events within our community. It’s unfortunate that the pastor failed to see this as a joyful occasion to be celebrated.
Jay: This story highlights the dichotomy we’re examining—the call for judgment, or perhaps more accurately, discernment, in the Bible. While ‘judgment’ and ‘discernment’ might be synonyms, they evoke different reactions. Judgment often implies a finality, a severity, whereas discernment feels milder, more about understanding or opinion.
We’re tasked with discernment around the ‘fruits’ or outcomes of actions, yet we’re cautioned against judging motives, which we can’t fully understand. How do discernment, judgment, and grace relate to assessing both the fruits and motives of actions?
Donald: The media influence our judgment process in a manner similar to that of the pastor by publishing things out of context, leading to rash judgments by readers. This approach is harmful because it lacks consideration for the full story, relying on sensationalism rather than truth.
David: Indeed, it amounts to condemnation, which most certainly seems to contradict Jesus’ teachings. The pastor, in essence, was throwing stones, something Jesus explicitly advised against. I feel strongly that this type of judgment is not only unfair but also goes against the principles of understanding and grace taught by Jesus.
Don: There seems to be a nuanced aspect to judgment that involves analyzing the end product or outcome. Righteous judgment, as I see it, is when the judgment affects my own behavior or impacts me in some way. This is evident in the Garden of Eden story, where God questions Adam about his actions. In contrast, hypocritical judgment seems more about altering another person’s behavior or affecting their social standing.
The end result of the judgment may determine whether it’s righteous or hypocritical. If it’s aimed at impacting someone else’s behavior or standing, we might be cautioned against it. If it affects my own behavior or standing, it could be seen differently.
Donald: What was the motive behind the pastor’s actions, what was he trying to achieve? Was it simply to point out that his church had lost its standards and was weakening? It seems he used this video as an example of his church’s declining values.
Jay: The critical question here is our capability to judge motives. As humans, we’re incapable of fully understanding or judging someone’s intentions. We might judge the outcomes or ‘fruits’ of actions, but good motives can sometimes lead to bad outcomes, and vice versa. It seems that grace might be more aligned with understanding motives, while judgment relates to the outcomes.
The key might be to focus less on the character or intentions of the person and more on the tangible results of their actions. This approach aligns better with the concept of grace and judgment as separate yet interconnected aspects.
C-J: The issue with the pastor is that he came from a position of cultural power and influence, and he may have caused harm, especially to the African students. In my view, his actions damaged his own character. He might have believed he was protecting the church, but to me, that suggests he doesn’t truly understand God.
David danced before the Lord with great joy, an aspect of God that this man, with his evidently ultra-conservative mindset, failed to appreciate. Watching children play is chaotic and messy, but it’s filled with joy. It’s a shame he couldn’t see that. Perhaps he should have sought counsel before making his judgment, which might have tempered his response.
Reinhard: The hypocritical judgment here seems driven by a desire to retain power and appear holier-than-thou. This reflects the Pharisees’ mindset in Jesus’ time. Righteous judgment, in contrast, aims to correct behavior.
In the story of the adulterous woman, Jesus’ act of forgiveness illustrates the grace of God. Jesus’ teachings set a high standard, like considering even lustful looks as sin. However, He understands our inability to always meet these standards. This story shows that even when we fall short, God’s grace is there to forgive us. This is a powerful example of balancing high standards with compassion and forgiveness.
Donald: If members of a church start to believe that their church is losing its standards, parents might start to question the value of sending their children to a church-affiliated university that doesn’t seem to uphold church standards. This mentality can lead to a takedown of institutions that don’t meet certain rigid standards.
The motive behind sharing such videos may be to validate the belief that the church is straying from its path, showing ‘evidence’ to those who already feel this way.
Kiran: I relate to that pastor’s actions because I behaved similarly for most of my Christian life. Initially, my goal was to achieve righteousness through strict adherence to certain practices like reading the Bible, evangelizing, praying, and dietary choices. I believed in an ideal church where everyone strove for this standard. When I saw others not adhering to this rigid approach, I felt angry and critical, partly because I struggled to meet these standards myself.
However, I now understand that my righteousness is like filthy rags and that striving for perfection isn’t what God requires. Accepting God’s grace has brought me peace and a new understanding. I’ve made peace with my human nature and sympathize with others who struggle or don’t strictly adhere to the rules. This experience is common in churches that teach a high and strict standard of righteousness through evangelism.
Michael: I’m struggling to understand the connection between grace and judgment. To me, they don’t seem related.
Jay: The question I’m posing is: Are they entirely distinct, or do they intersect in some way? They are both concepts that we recognize as divine in nature, encompassing divine judgment and divine grace. But I wonder, are they opposites, like yin and yang, or are they somehow intertwined? Can they exist independently, or are they inseparable?
Carolyn: I’m curious about the difference between discernment and judgment. To me, discernment seems like a lighter form of judgment. Is discernment about observing without acting on it?
C-J: I see it as a cycle with God at the center. Our binary brain leads us to God through judgment, and then discernment emerges as God reveals the Holy Spirit, bringing balance. The story of the Garden of Eden metaphorically shows this: Adam and Eve didn’t understand their relationship with God until they sinned and felt separation, which was their discernment. The subsequent judgment – toiling the earth and experiencing pain – showed that discernment requires work and a relationship with God. Grace is experienced differently by those who have struggled compared to those who grew up comfortably. Judgment often comes from external sources, while discernment and grace are divine gifts.
Michael: Maybe it’s when I judge myself that I open the door to grace. But when I judge others, I close that door for myself. That’s the only context in which I see grace interacting with judgment. I don’t fully grasp the difference between discernment and judgment; for me, they seem to merge.
Donald: Our discussion initially stumbled over the judgmental response in one of the parables, particularly the harshness of the lender who demanded the return of gold or dismissed someone harshly. It’s this aspect of judgment in the parables that we’re trying to reconcile with our current conversation.
David: Our ongoing struggle stems from treating judgment and grace as singular, monolithic concepts, which they are not. Thomas Aquinas, in Summa Theologica, delineated multiple forms of grace and types of judgment. It is not a singular entity but comprises several categories.
Similarly, judgment can be broken down into discernment and condemnation, among others. Understanding these concepts as multifaceted rather than singular might help us better grasp their complexities and interrelationships.
Don: The aspect of vindication in judgment is critical. Often, we associate judgment solely with condemnation, but vindication is a key component, especially in the context of divine judgment. This kind of judgment can be grace-filled. The promise of vindication, as given by Jesus, is an integral part of God’s judgment.
Sharon: Discernment might involve an assessment that leads to judgment. It seems more emotional, wisdom-based, and empathetic, triaging the context of a situation. It differs from judgment but is related. I appreciate the point about vindication in judgment, as it can be liberating in our spiritual journey, especially considering Jesus’ sacrifice on Calvary.
Michael: The idea that judgment can be a form of grace is intriguing but challenging to comprehend. Judgment typically carries a negative connotation, so the idea that it can also embody grace is a complex concept to grasp. This perspective shifts our traditional understanding of judgment and its implications.
Don: I’m emphasizing that grace is essentially judgment leading to vindication. It’s a concept where judgment, rather than being purely punitive or condemnatory, can lead to a positive outcome—vindication.
Reinhard: Discernment involves foreknowledge and thought before taking any action. Judgment, on the other hand, comes after an action has been executed, determining its nature as good or bad, leading to vindication or punishment. Condemnation is a type of judgment rendered for mistakes.
In Paul’s teachings, there’s a kind of temporal judgment we as humans are involved in, making decisions about right and wrong actions. However, the ultimate judgment, like deciding who will be saved, is solely God’s prerogative. We have the authority to judge and correct behavior, but the final judgment is in God’s hands.
Donald: So, should we judge or not? It seems like a constant human action, yet we often hear phrases like “I’m going to withhold judgment.” Are we really expected to judge others or not?
Reinhard: Judgment depends on the situation and should be biblically grounded. If it’s about correcting someone based on biblical principles and the motive is not about displaying power or control, then it’s appropriate.
However, issues arise when judgment is used to show superiority or control, as sometimes seen in ultra-conservative circles. The key is discerning when and how to judge, ensuring it aligns with righteous principles as outlined in the Bible.
Don: I believe our perception of judgment is skewed; we often see it as a measure of behavior, discerning right from wrong. However, the real judgment is about whether we accept God’s grace or rely on our own efforts. Jesus invites us to embrace His grace, moving away from the notion that we can earn God’s favor through our deeds. This idea aligns with the lesson from the Garden of Eden—humanity is not equipped to morally and forensically distinguish between good and evil.
C-J: Saying “I’ll reserve judgment” often feels like avoiding responsibility. It requires courage to be spiritually teachable and to guide others with grace, regardless of our role in the community. This includes instructing children, shaping church policies, and fostering open dialogue in various settings. We need community and guidance, reflecting the Holy Spirit’s activity in us.
It’s crucial to approach these matters with a perspective of love, especially in decisions that might affect someone’s spiritual journey. We should seek counsel beyond our immediate circle to understand the broader impacts of our decisions. Today, amidst much chaos, it’s challenging to maintain a balance without swinging to extremes. The goal should be open dialogue with mutual respect, striving for a loving community that upholds cultural norms and expectations supporting this aim. It’s about setting a high bar for mutual understanding and respect, rather than clinging to rigid stances.
Donald: We constantly edit our communication, whether it’s describing our week or altering a photograph. We shape perceptions through editing, both orally and visually. When I describe someone’s behavior, I do it in such a way that leads you to the same judgment I’ve made. This process of editing and shaping perceptions is commonplace.
C-J: I agree to an extent but argue that this kind of editing limits growth. When we only hear half a story or a narrative shaped to a particular viewpoint, we miss out on authenticity and the full picture. True growth occurs when we can be authentic, expressing our struggles and fears, and receiving genuine feedback.
In a safe community, where we can be open about our challenges, we receive guidance to tackle them. This is where spiritual community becomes vital. It should be a space for honesty and vulnerability, not just presenting a facade of having everything together. Addressing issues, whether in personal life or within a church, such as a pastor not being faithful, requires honesty and grace. Confronting such issues, while difficult, is necessary for maintaining integrity and well-being.
In every aspect of life, from personal relationships to faith communities, discernment and honesty are crucial. Being a Christian or a person of faith is challenging, but it’s through community and grace that we navigate these challenges effectively.
Jay: I’m intrigued by the negative connotations often associated with the word ‘judgment’ and how it influences our conversations. The concept of judgment as vindication or grace offers a different perspective that could be worth exploring.
The narrative of judgment being inherently negative might be clouding our discussions. I’m also interested in the reference to different types of grace.
Don: In the story of the prodigal son, we see the son’s editorial viewpoint of becoming a servant in his father’s house. However, his father has already made a judgment of vindication. This highlights the difference between man’s perspective and God’s judgment. It’s essential to discern between human judgment and divine judgment, as they often differ significantly.
Jay: As these thoughts are developed further, especially regarding the potential positive aspects of grace and judgment, it’s important to consider the liberating aspect of this concept. Understanding judgment in a positive light, as something not to be feared, is not only a valuable mental exercise but also a spiritually freeing one. Our discussions should aim to bring about this sense of relief and liberation, transcending mere academic inquiry into a more profound spiritual understanding.
Don: This discussion has clearly provoked some thought. It’s intriguing how we often shift the focus of biblical judgment onto how we should judge others, even though the parables are primarily about God’s judgment. This redirection of the discussion raises interesting points about our understanding and interpretation of judgment and grace.
Michael: Yes, the discussion is thought-provoking. The Bible’s emphasis on the Last Judgment often gets reframed into our judgments of others, even though it’s really about God’s judgment. This shift in focus is insightful and challenges how we perceive judgment and grace.
Don: We tend to emphasize the negative aspects of judgment, contrasting it with the positive outcome promised by grace. It’s puzzling why some, like the elder son in the prodigal son parable, refuse to accept grace, which is like depriving oneself of life’s essentials. It’s as if we’re choosing not to partake in the offered grace.
Michael: It can be challenging to see this perspective directly from the Bible, as our interpretations are influenced by culture and personal beliefs. Understanding grace as an element of God’s judgment that is inherently positive can fundamentally change how we perceive judgment.
David: This difficulty in seeing things as Jesus did is central to our discussions. The parable of the prodigal son, as interpreted by Don, aligns (in my own view) with Jesus’ message, but it’s not the interpretation most people accept or discuss. We often overlook the refusal to accept grace, focusing instead on other elements of the story.
Michael: If we truly understand that God’s judgment is laced with grace, as Don suggests, it changes the nature of judgment. It removes the fear associated with judgment and allows us to view it in a more positive, grace-filled light. This understanding can transform how we perceive and respond to judgment.
David: Judaism views grace and judgment as a necessary balance. The Talmud speaks of grace, often termed as blessing or mercy, suggesting that without judgment, grace could lead to chaos as people would then feel free to act without restraint.
This contrasts with the Christian view where grace is emphasized more singularly. It all boils down to faith and the acceptance of God’s grace, as exemplified by the elder son in the Prodigal story.
Don: It might be interesting to discuss the concept of grace in other major religions. The Qur’an, for instance, begins with phrases emphasizing God’s mercy, but some perceive that its teachings focus more on performance than on grace and mercy.
Michael: Yes, the opening phrase of the Qur’an is “Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem’ الرَّحِيْمِ الرَّحْمٰنِ اللهِ بِسْمِ (meaning, “In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful”).
David: The 12th/13th century Sufi mystic Ibn Arabi explored divine grace as a manifestation of God’s mercy bestowed without merit. This interpretation aligns closely with Christian understandings of unmerited grace. This might not be a widely held view, though—I don’t know.
Michael: I was hoping for more emphasis on the New Testament and Jesus’ teachings in our discussion. Maybe we can include that in our future conversations.
David: Next week I will share some insights gained with the help of ChatGPT about the different categories of grace described by Thomas Aquinas. Additionally, I’ll explore concepts of grace in other religions. It will be interesting then to see how these various perspectives on grace can be interwoven and related to our current discussion.
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