Obedience

How good do we have to be to be saved? What is the role of our obedience in salvation?

The belief that we get what we deserve is widely held and deeply rooted in all religions. Even Christianity, where the concept of grace comes from, can’t shake the intuitive notion that we are responsible for our own behavior. After all, isn’t there a Judgment, and what is there to judge if not what we do?

We envision, in our rather primitive minds, a book in heaven where everything is written down—all of the good and all of the bad. The good of course helps us and the bad hurts us. It seems we should have more good than bad if we want to get to heaven, if we want to get what we deserve.

But then we’re reminded of grace—of unmerited favor, of God’s mercy, and of not getting what we deserve.

So if works are not what save us, why this emphasis, in the Christian life, on obedience? Is it possible that obedience is the way of grace? Are grace and obedience opposites? Are they mutually exclusive? Is obedience a way of cleaning the outside of the cup that Jesus talked to the Pharisees about, leaving the inside dirty; or whitewashing the exterior of the tomb while dry, dusty, and dead bones reside inside?

If you cannot be saved by your works, can you be lost by them? Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but there are no passages in the Scriptures which speak to what behaviors lead to heaven. There’s nothing that says “If you’re kind, if you’re gentle, if you’re generous, if you’re forgiving, if you’re honest, these are the characteristics which will lead you to heaven and heaven awaits you.” But the opposite is not true. For example:

 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:-9-10)

And:

 …as it is written: “There is no righteous person, not even one;  There is no one who understands, There is no one who seeks out God;  They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, There is not even one.” (Romans 3:10-12)

It’s a pretty categorical statement: None are righteous. The corollary is that the unrighteous will not go to heaven. It seems we are all doomed. We’re told:

… for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,… (Romans 3:23)

We try hard. I think most of us want to be good. We’re afraid of hell and of being lost. I can remember praying for forgiveness when I was a boy, hoping I wouldn’t step off the curb and be struck by a car and killed before I got home to ask for forgiveness for the sins I had committed that day.

What role does obedience have in our salvation? And where does grace come in? Last week, someone said that grace is reserved for the end of life, while obedience is for here and now. Two parables may cast some important light on the subject of obedience in the Christian life. First is the story of two men who built on different foundations:

 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts on them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and its collapse was great.” (Matthew 7:24-27)

Here we see two houses, two men, and two foundations. Your house, my house… our houses are what surround us. They are the environment of our lives. They are our security. They are our material well being. They are our shelter. Jesus is talking about the value of listening to and hearing his words. He’s been talking about the kingdom of heaven and its effect on us here and now. Love God, he said, and love your fellow Man. Don’t judge one another. Turn the other cheek. Go to the back of the line. Let your light shine a little. Spread a little salt around and live—if you can—by understanding the Beatitudes and what blesses you in life.

What the parable doesn’t say is that one man was lost and the other man was saved. In this parable obeying is linked, it seems to me, to a secure future. To be sure, it is clear that the storms of life are present and severe for everyone, regardless of the house that you build and what the foundation is. But somehow the travails of life are more tolerable, more bearable, more endurable if you have a solid foundation. There’s something about being grounded in life that makes life better. Obedience is the path to greater security in this life.

If you love God, and if you love your neighbor, and if you resist the devil and try to live a good life, your life is not free of trouble but it seems more centered, somehow. Living the golden rule doesn’t alleviate stress and distress but it’s a better way of living, Jesus said. This is not a parable about salvation but about living here and now. When you’re honest, and kind, and fair and respectful of others, your life is a better life. Everything won’t come crashing down in every stress of life. You are buffeted but you’re not broken. That’s what following God’s ways do for you in this life: It gives you a foundation. Doing things God’s way makes for a better way of life.

The other benefit of obedience is found in the parable of two sons:

“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ But he replied, ‘I do not want to.’ Yet afterward he regretted it and went. And the man came to his second son and said the same thing; and he replied, ‘I will, sir’; and yet he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even have second thoughts afterward so as to believe him.” (Matthew 21:28-32)

This parable gives us insight into the issue of obedience. As also was the case with the parable of two houses, this is not a parable of judgment. Neither son was disenfranchised, neither son lost his inheritance, neither son was dismissed from the family. But one made the father happy—brought joy for his effort—and the other did not. One honored the father, the other did not. Obedience doesn’t make either one a son. They’re both already in that status. But obedience shows respect for the father. It shows a desire to please the father. It shows that the son wants to do things the way the father does them.

Imitation is called the sincerest form of flattery. When you do things the way a parent does things, when you do things the way a teacher or a mentor or some leader does things, it does show a sign of affiliation and esteem, of admiration and regard. It’s a form of consideration.

Is it possible that obedience— and by that we really mean doing things God’s way—helps us to be more centered, more foundational and focused, more grounded, to have a more sure foundation? Is it also possible that obedience (doing things God’s way) is to honor our spiritual mentor, to hold and to show esteem for our Redeemer? We remain—despite our obedience—sinners in need of God’s grace; we are all broken and beleaguered. None of us is righteous; no, not one.

But that doesn’t prevent us from trying to do things God’s way, not for our salvation but for our desire to show respect to God. We’ve been given this sure foundation:

“Behold, I am laying a stone in Zion, a tested stone,A precious cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.The one who believes in it will not be disturbed.” (Isaiah 28:16)

And:

…having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone,… (Ephesians 2:20)

Paul builds on this theme:

 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, each one’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If anyone’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.  Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (1 Corinthians 3:12-16)

The foundation, as in the story of the two houses, is Jesus,. You build on it what you can with the resources that you have. Some have only hay onto which to build the foundation, some have wood, others have gold or silver or precious stone. Everyone’s resources are not the same. But if you’re centered on the foundation of Jesus, the fires of life will test you and may even burn up your house, but you will be saved.

Paul made the same metaphorical reference to foundations here:

 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth, claiming that the resurrection has already taken place; and they are jeopardizing the faith of some. Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His;” and, “Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to keep away from wickedness.”  Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver implements, but also implements of wood and of earthenware, and some are for honor while others are for dishonor. Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be an implement for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work. Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, skillful in teaching, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. (2 Timothy 2:15-26)

This solid foundation of God is standing with a sign that reads: “The Lord knows the people who belong to Him.” This is the shepherd who knows who his sheep are. We so much wish to know about God, but it is far more important to be known by God as one of his flock. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a garbage bowl or a golden chalice—you’re part of God’s household, you’re God’s vessel. You’re known by God, you are a special bowl. But, Paul asked:

… now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again? (Galatians 4:9)

This passage says that our knowledge of God is weak, wayward, and wanting, but what we know of his ways we should try to follow. Even poorly done, we’re better off trying to do things God’s way. We’re better for it, our families are better for it, our neighbors are better for it, and the world is better for it. But not because there’s a heaven to win and a hell to be shunned: It is because it honors God and it helps to center us in a foundational way.

We must, it seems to me, separate obedience from salvation. Is it even possible to do that? Can you do that? What do you consider foundational in your life, in terms of obedience? What centers you? Can you help formulate a doctrine of obedience that is the way of grace? Does doing things God’s way sound easier or harder than the topic of obedience? Does it sound like a license to sin, or to cheap grace? And how obedient do you need to be anyway?

When we mis-state something because we simply forgot, are we being untruthful? What about little white lies? What about not telling the entire truth? How good do we have to be? What is the role of obedience and what is the role of grace?

Anonymous: It’s all about the heart. It’s not about obedience, even though that is very important. We have two parts in our being: The inside and the outside. The inside is what God looks at and judges accordingly. It’s not a lie if it was not intended, even though it looks on the outside as if it was a lie. Another may consider it as a lie, seeing only the outside. But God looks at the heart. It is the difference between obedience and righteousness.

When the heart is right with God, that’s righteousness. When we do things as much as we can yet be lacking, incomplete, imperfect, we can sin without even meaning to, doing things that we don”t think we want to do but we do them anyway. And it’s wrong, but we’re not just for that because God looks at the heart. And as the Bible says (in Proverbs, I think), the heart is very, very bad; who knows it? Only God knows it and only God can change it.

The outside is our business. We can experiment with it all life long, trying to do good. Sometimes we fail, sometimes we succeed; but only God can change the heart, and that’s what God built salvation on. It’s his work to change our heart and it’s his work to guarantee salvation for us. Because from A to Z, it’s his work. He knows what kind of hearts we have, right from the beginning, right from day one. We are born with bad hearts. It’s God’s business to change it and to lead us into salvation.

The rest is our concern—to be obedient, to try our best; at least for the benefits of it. It leads to a better life, more security, better relationships, more peace of mind, and if it wasn’t for anything else but the benefits of it, we should be obedient because then we would be wise like the builder on the rock foundation; we would be wise for our own benefit and for our own life eternal. We would get both: Good here, and good there.

Reinhard: Paul said:

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;… (Phillipians 2:12)

The word “work” here can be translated to “obedience,” I believe. The point is: We have to make an effort. To me, grace is for our salvation, given by God. It is unmerited mercy, an unmerited gift to all humanity, so that we have the opportunity to go to heaven. But the key is that we have to make some effort. Of course, we know we don’t earn salvation by our work; no matter how good we think we are, it is not enough. We are not worthy to be saved.

God’s love is unconditional, but his gift of grace is based on the condition that you respond. I think salvation requires our response by obeying the commandments and having faith as Scripture says:

Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (Revelation 14:12)

These are the two things we have to remember. Goodness is not enough. I know atheists who are good people, but they don’t have faith. For Christians, obedience and salvation require effort. We cannot just stand still. Salvation is not a blanket amnesty. I don’t think evil people will be saved. Obedience combined with faith is key. No matter how good we are, we will be deficient and God will make up for our shortcomings.

Donald: When we raise a child, we weave together Christian obedience with good behavior. Do we want a child to have good behavior independent of anything else? And how do you teach good behavior, if you don’t have any reference points? It’s kind of like politics (or government) and Christianity, which have been so woven together in America that it’s difficult to know what’s patriotic. Obedience is in that mix somewhere.

In kindergarten and primary school we had lots of illustrations to show what a good boy looks like, in the context of Christianity. Would God be happy with that behavior? No. So that’s why you cleaned up your behavior. If we have to be good to be saved, then it’s all about works. The other side of that is you accept Christ as your Savior.and believe in Him as your Redeemer, and that’s all there is to it.

The behavior of the criminal on the cross next to Christ was forgiven, so his obedience in life did not enter into it. Who are we to be obedient to—our parents or God? Those two things are wrapped in tight, it seems to me. And as you get older, you have to pull it apart, and it’s challenging.

Dewan: Scripture says:

But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you will be My people; and you shall walk entirely in the way which I command you, so that it may go well for you.’ (Jeremiah 7:23)

Obedience to God is an essential element of our relationship with God. I think obedience is an act of faith.

Anonymous: This too is very relevant.

“The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?  I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, To give to each person according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds. (Jeremiah 17:9-10)

Kiran: The struggle between obedience and grace is really prevalent among Adventists because our church has a history of believing in either side of it. In 1844, a lot of prophecy came through and a lot of people came from different churches, but the prevalent belief was that if you keep the commandments, you will go to heaven.

Then in 1888 Wagner and Jones proposed that you can’t be obedient by yourself; you need Christ. Only he can give you, through his grace, salvation and his righteousness. A lot of people rejected this and the camp was divided. Ellen White was so angry with the people who didn’t believe that message.

Some books written prior to that era are still read today, so we get conflicting messages in our Adventist literature. I do not want to be disobedient to God. It hurts me more than anybody else when I make a mistake. I’m pretty hard on myself. I feel terrible about myself. I used to think of law-keeping as a series of prohibitions. But then I thought that if I kept that law I would end up not do anything for anybody. I would end up as a museum piece.

If my relationship with God is broken, then my relationship with myself, my wife, my parents, my society, and with planet Earth is broken. So if I commit to fixing my relationship with God first, then he will help me to fix my relationship with myself, with people. and with the planet I live on.

The Holy Spirit is key. If there is no inner voice, I will continually choose destructive behavior. When people who have been in relationships for three or four years break up they often engage in destructive behavior because breaking up a long relationship makes people crazy. That is also true of our spiritual relationship. If I put my effort towards restoring my relationship with God (which is not really based on the 10 commandments, which only show me how bad I am) what fixes me is Christ.

Every time we say we have to keep the law otherwise we don’t get into heaven we are nullifying the work of Christ. That is a much bigger sin than anything else. There is a reason why Christ came. Christ came as a savior because there is no way that we can save ourselves by keeping the law. The function of law is to show how wrong I am. But it is the function of Jesus to save me. My duty is to restore my relationship with Christ; that is, to focus on him. When I do, my relationship becomes good, and I start loving myself.

Things I do really make me hate myself. When I start loving myself the way Christ loves me, then I will be able to love other people the way he wants me to love them. And when we love each other and when we love this planet, we don’t need the law. God is the one who gives salvation. I don’t think we have any idea how to attain it.

David: Confucianism is the paragon of obedience. Confucius believed in heaven as some kind of overarching deity, but that was all. He said we cannot possibly know enough to even think about it further, just be aware that it’s there in the background.

Original Confucian philosophy builds on filial piety—the obedience of children to their father, of the father to his local Lord, of the local Lord to the regional lord, and of the regional lord to the Emperor. Later, so-called Neo-Confucianism took on some of the mystical trappings of religious Daoism and Buddhism, but originally it was all about the here and now, about rendering unto Caesar that which was Caesar’s. It had nothing to do with God and everything to do with society.

Spiritual obedience is owed to the inner light, to the Holy Spirit inside, to the voice of Jesus. Obedience to the inner spirit, the inner voice, seems to me all that Jesus ever really talked about. That’s what his mission, his message, and his life were all about. “I am there, inside you. Just listen to me!” To the rich young ruler: “By all means obey the 10 commandments, but know that it’s not enough. My voice inside you is telling you to go and give everything you have to the poor. You know, deep down, it’s the right thing to do. Can you do it?” No, he couldn’t. But that’s the obedience that we need: Obedience to the voice inside our heads.

C-J: The back cover of A Christian affirmation of religious pluralism addresses what we’ve said in terms of why is there’s so much diversity and where did the lines get drawn? It says:

“In this engaging book, the author makes the case for the presence of diversity and plurality, deep within the structures of Christian faith itself. God, creation, incarnation, reign of God, grace and mission, the God who acts redemptively in ways appropriate to a diversity of culture, in peoples called Christians, to convert the world, not to our own religion, but to friendship. Precisely this sort of theology and self-examination is needed as the next step in the emerging dialogue of world religions. The book will be profoundly illuminating for lay persons, pastors, students, and preparing for ministry.”

I think it addresses what we’ve all been listening to and that there is this interwoven thing of obedience and the grace and the Holy Spirit’s voice within us. So I don’t think that we can really have grace or faith without being sensitive to what we refer to as the Holy Spirit. And the beauty of it is to take the diversity and bring us together, because we’re born into different traditions in different locations, different languages, and meaning attributed to vocabulary.

But I don’t think it can be done without what many have said. The questions are there and they’re many, until we surrender to that voice of the Holy Spirit. And there’s no question that it’s something (I’ll speak for myself) greater than me trying to figure out and being intellectual about it. It’s truly life-altering when I listen to the Holy Spirit, and very humbling.

Donald: The challenge is tolerance. How much tolerance do we have for diversity, which suggests “different than me”? Adventists believe we have a message to take to the world, that we have the truth, which we’re going to proselytize. That doesn’t sound much like tolerance. That sounds like conversion. And it’s not that much different than other Christian faith groups. But how much tolerance? What’s the limit? Where are the edges? Should there be any edges? Or is it a circle?

C-J: There is obedience to the law, which takes on a more worldly view; obedience to the divine, which sounds like when we’re talking about the commandments; and then there’s obedience to self, which is really about your faith and what you believe being obedient to your faith is. So in terms of the Adventist message, something that to me seemed most prominent was all about mission, and preaching and converting.

Adaure: To an Adventist that idea isn’t intolerance; rather, it’s being obedient to belief. But then to another person it definitely looks like intolerance. Why is my slate not as good as yours? Why is my faith not as good as yours? We talked about faith without works being dead versus salvation by works being not a thing. Do we need faith to be saved? Or are those separate? If you do need faith to be saved, then you definitely need some form of work, because faith without works is dead.

David: In the parable of the prodigal son, who was the more obedient? The elder son or the prodigal? I think we’d all agree it was the eldest son, who did everything required of him. Yet he wasn’t really the one who was saved, was he? What saved the prodigal? He listened to his inner voice. He was visited with grace when he admitted he had absolutely nowhere else to go. He was on the verge of death, and he came to his senses. He listened to the voice in his head that said: “You need to go home.”

He wasn’t obeying some rule that his father had laid down. I don’t think that was the point of the parable. I think Jesus was saying that the prodigal son knew, in his head, what to do. He knew what was right and what was needed to be saved. And in the end, with the help of grace, he got there. To me, the parable of the prodigal son throws obedience out of the window as just not important.

C-J: I think obedience goes back to what Donald said about the guardrails. They bring mindfulness to us. Because when I’m angry, I’m not thinking about it by being kind; I’m trying to make a point, and of course I’m right! 🙂 But when I think about grace, if I quiet my spirit and say, “I’m going to take my hand off of this, I’m going to surrender to God, whether I win or lose, and I’m going to watch God’s hand that only he can receive the glory because it is only grace that will prevail here.”

That is not an easy thing to do, but those guardrails helped me find that place quicker. It takes a lot of work to be mindful of right thinking, right behavior, right fellowship. But it’s really only God that gets us to this place. It’s that Holy Spirit. But without the guardrails I’m a whirlwind of anger.

Don: I get up every day and set out on my daily activities and work. There’s 100, maybe 1000 decisions I have to make to do this, to do that, to be this way or to be that way, to say this or to say that, to think this or to think that. Is that what obedience is all about? Is that what grace is all about? Is it something I have to be consciously intervening with myself on a moment by moment basis? Or is it something that comes naturally? I don’t think it comes naturally to me.

Reinhard: When we ask God, God will give us enlightenment in our mind, I believe God will intervene in our daily decisions, though we don’t have to ask God everything because God knows when we are at a crossroads and cannot make a decision. In my experience, there’s always a way God speaks through the Holy Spirit.

With regard to obedience: Jesus said, If you love me, obey my commandments. If I live the life of Jesus, the commandments he gave to us when he preached—the Beatitudes, he taught through parables he talked to the rich young ruler, he talked about how many times we can forgive other people. He showed us examples such as the sick person in Bethsaida and the lady caught in adultery, when he said “Go and sin no more.”

When we see the life Jesus taught us we need to realize how far God wants us to go. The great commandments are to love God and love your neighbor. I think we don’t put too much burden on ourselves if we are right with God. There are things as human beings we cannot do, including things against God’s will. But as we live closer to the life of Jesus in this world, I think we have to introspect and think about what God really wants in our life. Obedience is key to loving God and obeying his commandments. I believe that’s what God wants from us.

Don: So do we throw obedience out with the bathwater or do we stand up for obedience?

Donald: We say “If you love God, you’ll keep my commandments.” Then we have the 10 commandments. I wonder, are those words actually the same words as they were originally written? Because we connect the two. Now it’s been transcribed as “commandments commandments.” There’s not much wiggle room there. Is heaven a reward for being good? Is that what we’re getting down to? Because I really think that heaven should be a reward to be with Christ forever, with God forever.

Reinhard: God told the Rich Young Ruler to sell all his belongings but also to obey the commandments—love everything, do not kill do, not do this and that. But Jesus taught, in parables, that God gives us the chance to go back again and again. Seventy-seven times seven. As long as we come to God.

David: Did the prodigal son go home because he loved his father?

Pastor Giddi: The prodigal son goes home because he thinks his father can accept him.

Don: Or because his father loves him and he’s in desperate need of somebody to love him? There is more to come on the subject of grace and obedience. Next week we’ll talk about manna and the relationship between grace and obedience in the illustration of the manna from from heaven in the book of Exodus.

---