Don: Last week, Alice pointed out that the fall of Man from the Garden of Eden came about through his exercise of his will, whereas the restoration of Man—the way back to the Garden of Eden—came about through Jesus’ relinquishing of his will in the garden of Gethsemane.
Jesus raised the issue of will with Peter when he said in Matthew 26: “The spirit is willing, but the flesh is week.” Just before that, at the end of the Last Supper, he told the disciples (Matthew 26:31-35):
“You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, ‘I will strike down the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered.’ But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee.” But Peter said to Him, “Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away.” Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you that this very night, before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” Peter said to Him, “Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You.” All the disciples said the same thing too.
Peter is confident of his ability to remain loyal and maintain his relationship with Jesus. Yet shortly afterwards, in Gethsemane, he sleeps through Jesus’ anguish.
To what extent can our will keep us awake? Is it possible, by the sheer exercise of it, never to sleep? What did Jesus mean by “The flesh is willing, but the spirit is weak”? (Some translations emphasize that the spirit is “indeed” willing.) And where is the will?—Is it of the flesh, or of the spirit?
Jesus had instructed the three disciples to “watch” while he prayed, so that they would not fall into temptation. What did “watch” mean? The Greek word used means to have heightened sensory awareness, to be extra careful.
What might this passage mean in terms of our will? Should we relinquish it? Through weakness of will, we often fail to do things we sincerely want to do, such as give up bad habits or be better people.
Alice: Does the spirit discussed here refer to the spirit of god within us?
Harry: Essentially, it seems to me, we are the flesh; the spirit is god.
Robin: “Holy Spirit” is capitalized in scripture, but the word “spirit” in this passage is not capitalized, so that could mean that it does not refer to the Holy Spirit.
David: Yes, the bible’s editors are very careful about such matters. I have always thought the will here refers to our own human will, not to the divine will. But in this context, it is talking about the will to do good—to stay awake and keep watch—but they can’t, so it must be their human will, their human spirit, that is weak.
Don: Can we, by the force of our will, stay awake for days and nights together?
Kiran: In Romans 7, Paul asks the same thing. When I run marathons, I will my body to keep going even when it is exhausted, and I succeed in completing the marathons. But in other things, my will often fails. It seems I have a dueling split personality.
David: The flesh tends to be weak when it comes to doing something that is good, but not when it comes to doing something that is bad. That would suggest that the weak spirit is the spirit of goodness—of god—within us.
Alice: Maybe Jesus is referring to Peter’s words about not denying Jesus. His spirit doesn’t want to deny Jesus, but his flesh is weak.
Robin: Maybe by “spirit” he means “will.” A dialog on Spirit in Romans 8 capitalizes the word and in one instance it is explicitly called “the Spirit of God,” whereas in this passage it is not capitalized so is not talking about the Spirit of God.
Harry: What does Jesus want of the disciples? When Jesus said the disciples would all “fall away” because of him, what did he mean? The disciples thought he was the Messiah, a real king who would free Israel from bondage. Whose fault is this misunderstanding? Is it Jesus’ fault or the disciples’ fault? Or is it a fault in translation? “Flesh” and “spirit” are just words. I am driven more by feelings than by words.
David: Given that the disciples slept through the prayer, then who recorded it?
Jay: There are two main components to the passage: Watching, and praying. They are metaphors for the human and spiritual aspects of not falling into temptation. Watching is something within our human power to do, and we have a responsibility to do it. Praying is the way to put one’s human will in line with the will of god. It can be very difficult to stay in line with God’s will otherwise. Doing so may even require our death. Peter recognized that, but did not grasp the full implications of it.
A quadrant system used in education to help teachers help children think to analytically measures the level of rigor on one axis and relevance on the other. The teacher’s goal is to teach in the quadrant that has a high level of rigor and a high level of relevance. Jesus wanted the disciples to be in that quadrant, with respect to watchfulness and prayer.
Michael: Jesus was much more confident and successful in controlling his will during the 40 days and nights in the desert, than he was in Gethsemane. He went so long without food and water and did not even feel hungry. So maybe there is a way to subjugate the flesh to the will, even to seemingly physically impossible levels.
Alice: Jesus’ prayer strengthened his spirit in the wilderness and he was able to resist the devil’s temptations. The disciples did not pray in Gethsemane, so their spirit was weak and unable to resist the temptation Jesus warned them of. They fell away.
Ada: If I were in Jesus’ shoes, about to be sacrificed, I would be feeling pretty frustrated that my closest friends fell asleep during my moment of greatest need. God’s will was eventually done, but at that moment in time Jesus was in real fear of pain and suffering.
Robin: The temptation Jesus wanted them to overcome was perhaps the temptation to fear and doubt. In the end, fear and doubt led them to fall away.
Kiran: Is Jesus saying that our spirit is willing to align itself with the will of god but that our human nature is too weak to follow the spirit’s lead? Is this about salvation by works vs. salvation by grace?
Jay: The passage seems to be more concerned with behavior than with judgment. It is our responsibility to be watchful of others as we go through life and to use whatever tools are at our disposal to love and help them. The more we behave this way, the more resistant we become to temptation. But we cannot reach this level of watchfulness and behavior without prayer, without God’s contribution of grace and love.
Kiran: So prayer makes me more alert to, and more willing to follow, God’s will.
Alice: In Arabic, [garbled] means “to doubt.”
Harry: Jesus is a man of peace, yet he is accompanied by a disciple armed with a sword.
Robin: The Greek word for sword can also mean knife. It would not be unusual for a fisherman to carry a knife.
Don: Isn’t the point the contrast between the armaments of man and Jesus’ claimed ability to mount a defense if he thought such to be necessary? “Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father and he will at once put at my disposal twelve legions of angels?” Again, it reflects upon the true nature of god versus man’s desire for a different kind of god.
David: If the problem is with the flesh, then we have to figure out how to strengthen it. As Jason suggested, we don’t necessarily have to do anything—we just wait for God’s grace to kick in. On the other hand, we physically cannot survive for longer than a finite period without food and water, unless it’s by means of the kind of transcendental prayer used by the Buddhists that reputedly slows their metabolism and puts them in communion with god. I guess this was the kind of prayer Jesus prayed in the wilderness, that enabled him to go 40 days and confidently brush Satan aside. The Gethsemane prayer was a more ordinary, human kind of prayer.
Harry: Given the enormity of the blessing he was about to both receive from god and to bestow upon mankind, one would think Jesus would have run joyously to the cross. But he was troubled and heartbroken. He was like us. He was displaying his human weakness in his feelings, but also he showed his divine strength in subordinating those feelings to the will of god.
Don: There seems to be a contrast between the smallness of the inner light of god within us and the size and power of the flesh. How do we get the flame to grow bigger and brighter and powerful enough to overcome the flesh entirely?
Jay: There is no doubt that Jesus was struggling with his humanity, but he was always able to summon the strength from his inner light to overcome it. Paul was able to shoulder his fleshly burden—the ever-present thorn—in like manner.
Alice: in Arabic, the phrase for the spirit is willing is: “The spirit is active or agile or always on the move.” So he is not saying that he does not want to go, he is not hesitant, but he is limited by his flesh, and by praying and committing his will to god, he strengthens his flesh.
David: Don’s comment led me to think about the obverse of the sentence, i.e.: “The flesh is willing, but the spirit is weak.” That sounds like a line out of the Satanic Bible, if there is such a thing. And it kind of reflects the way things are, but then, so does Jesus’ statement. so I am confused.
Michael. I like the idea of transcendental meditative prayer. Does it help one to control one’s desires?
David: I understand it does, as indeed it is reported to do also for ascetic monks and nuns and anchorites of Christian and Hindu and other beliefs.
Don: We will continue the topic next week. This discussion has prompted some growing ideas in my mind.
Class: Uh-oh. 🙂
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